"Aeronautics" Major, ROTC, and the Risk if you're not selected "Aviator" but want to fly

Herman_Snerd

Herman_Snerd

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Some participants in ROTC select an Aeronautics major, which in essence is like a professional flight program in providing a solid foundation in aviation, but differs in that there are no hours in flight nor flight certs earned. It's also different in that it's not an an engineering degree (mechanical/ aerospace, etc.) The purpose of this post is to discuss a risk of that major.

I've seen this work out, where a new Ensign is now a Student Naval Aviator and the Navy is teaching him to fly / he'll get all certs and most if not all hours there. HIs thought was "why should I pay for flight lessons when the Navy will train me for free". It worked out - He'll fly for the navy, then if he wants can transition to a career as an airline transport pilot with the airlines.

I've also yesterday observed two examples, below, where Aeronautics majors were sub drafted or ended up being selected to be a NFO and honestly, I have empathy for them.

Sharing as "needs of the navy" take precedence, and if you have a young person gung ho to fly, well, it doesn't always work out that they are selected to do so. it's a pretty big gamble to have an aeronautics degree but no flight experience, nor no engineering degree, unless you want to go the Air Traffic Controller or Airport Management route. Just think about it being a pilot is your goal.

Examples below:

"___ be graduating in May with a Bachelor of Science in Aeronautics with minors in Air Traffic Management, Military Science, and Aviation Law. She has been service assigned to the Submarine community and will be reporting to Charleston for Nuclear Power School."

"___ is an Aeronautics major with minors in aeronautical studies and military science. He is from _____ and will be commissioned into the Navy as a Naval Flight Officer and will report to NAS Pensacola."

We have SNAs, and former FO/ aviators s in this forum who may wish to share their perspectives - I'm just bringing up a topic in case it may help those weighing options avoid a pitfall later.
 
I agree this adjusts that dream of flying for an airline someday. But, as the mom of a sub draftee, this path will also open a LOT that wasn’t on the radar. No matter the major. As NUKE school, and experience, will superecede whatever major was taken in school.

Needs of the Navy is alive and well!! And it’s what they sign up for. Adjust, overcome and move forward. Embracing the opportunities in front of you. Always.
 
Nothing wrong with being an NFO. There’s quite a number of students that list it as #1 over pilot actually. They’re happy in the NFO pipeline.

Odds for flying (in) a jet or P-8 are much higher as an NFO than Pilot. Most Naval Aviators are rotary, the helo draft is real. P-8s are currently the most competitive platform for Navy SNAs to select, followed by jets

Some people enjoy flying in stuff but don’t want to be at the controls
 
Ivy22 said:
Nothing wrong with being an NFO. There’s quite a number of students that list it as #1 over pilot actually. They’re happy in the NFO pipeline.

Odds for flying (in) a jet or P-8 are much higher as an NFO than Pilot. Most Naval Aviators are rotary, the helo draft is real. P-8s are currently the most competitive platform for Navy SNAs to select, followed by jets

Some people enjoy flying in stuff but don’t want to be at the controls
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That’s interesting, I would have thought jets would have been first ahead of everything else. Why is it that the P8 is so competitive? Cause you can build your hours and everyone wants that?
 
applicant_24 said:
That’s interesting, I would have thought jets would have been first ahead of everything else. Why is it that the P8 is so competitive? Cause you can build your hours and everyone wants that?
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Hours that align well to commercial, land based, no ship deployments (well eventually they do but non-flying), TAD money is nice.
 
applicant_24 said:
That’s interesting, I would have thought jets would have been first ahead of everything else. Why is it that the P8 is so competitive? Cause you can build your hours and everyone wants that?
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The lifestyle for P-8s is highly desirable right now among the SNAs. You're also literally flying a 737 which translates well to the airlines, something else a lot of SNAs want

Most SNAs will get airsick in the T-6 as well. A lot will be able to beat it, but a good number of students won't and they'll have to go to the infamous spin chair to get over their airsickness. Or students find out they actually don't like aerobatics, pulling G's, formation flying during primary. Well, that's what jets do, why would they fly something when they don't really like the flying style that goes with it?
 
I'll just add that your degree matters less both in the service and post-service than comparable civilians. In service the Navy will give you the requisite training to be successful. Post-Navy, regardless of community, that individual will have a variety of trainings and experiences to leverage. I know aviators that became civilian lawyers, a submariner that became a MD, an NFO that started a successful technology company, and some of the smartest SWO(N)s I worked with had liberal arts degrees. My first reactor officer was a civilian pilot for fun.

Of course a civilian with a degree in X can then pursue a successful career in Y, but service members approach Y with a greater experience envelope. The flip side is they're often a few years older comparatively.
 
I know lawyers, dentists and a bunch of others jobs who became airline pilots. Get a good degree, airlines like to hire till they furlough.
 
Ivy22 said:
Nothing wrong with being an NFO. There’s quite a number of students that list it as #1 over pilot actually. They’re happy in the NFO pipeline.

Odds for flying (in) a jet or P-8 are much higher as an NFO than Pilot. Most Naval Aviators are rotary, the helo draft is real. P-8s are currently the most competitive platform for Navy SNAs to select, followed by jets

Some people enjoy flying in stuff but don’t want to be at the controls
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Appreciate your sharing additional perspective here - Great points - I just feel bad for those who specifically want to be a pilot in the navy and beyond, and hope they'll get all certs/ hours/training to do so in the Navy, but end up on a sub, or in a SWO/ NFO position. For sure, there is significant flight training for NFOs, and yet unless they take on a flight instructor role back say at P'Cola to get more hours,it's really challenging for them to get their Commercial-Multi certs and critical pilot in command hours* that the ATP requires - even at the lower bar hours PIC total for military trained pilots. I think the NFO role is awesome for those who want it, in fact were it me on that journey I'd be a NFO as my dream role, but - sitting next to the pilot when you want to BE the pilot sounds less than ideal... My DS and a few of his buddies only put SNA on their preference sheets for this reason - they love aviation but it was pilot or bust for them with Naval Aviation - - worked out for 3 of them, 2 of which had flight experience - a couple of others -1 M/ 1 F are sub draftees including the guy who had his PPL, and another went SWO.
 
Herman_Snerd said:
Appreciate your sharing additional perspective here - Great points - I just feel bad for those who specifically want to be a pilot in the navy and beyond, and hope they'll get all certs/ hours/training to do so in the Navy, but end up on a sub, or in a SWO/ NFO position. For sure, there is significant flight training for NFOs, and yet unless they take on a flight instructor role back say at P'Cola to get more hours,it's really challenging for them to get their Commercial-Multi certs and critical pilot in command hours* that the ATP requires - even at the lower bar hours PIC total for military trained pilots. I think the NFO role is awesome for those who want it, in fact were it me on that journey I'd be a NFO as my dream role, but - sitting next to the pilot when you want to BE the pilot sounds less than ideal... My DS and a few of his buddies only put SNA on their preference sheets for this reason - they love aviation but it was pilot or bust for them with Naval Aviation - - worked out for 3 of them, 2 of which had flight experience - a couple of others -1 M/ 1 F are sub draftees including the guy who had his PPL, and another went SWO.
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Yes, it IS crushing when it happens. Absolutely. But, it does happen. My guy is home and we were just talking about it, almost 6 mos after assignment. You pivot, and find the benefits of your new path. It can take a long minute to gain that acceptance. As always, needs of the Navy. And it’s an honor to be selected to study and learn at the worlds best Nuclear Power School. Hand picked by the head of the entire Nuclear Navy.


Signed,
#SubDraftMomma 🙋‍♀️😂
 
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As far as gaining flight hours, at many air stations there's a flight club where you can get flight lessons, gather hours, get your IFR and multi-engine ratings, etc. I've known a couple of NFOs who were able to build stick hours that way.

Also, there is an annual board for NFO to pilot transition. While someone with two sets of wings is a bit of a unicorn, they are out there. Of course, your performance as an NFO and an officer is the biggest influence on the board.
 
applicant_24 said:
That’s interesting, I would have thought jets would have been first ahead of everything else. Why is it that the P8 is so competitive? Cause you can build your hours and everyone wants that?
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Yes, that is a reason, but the big-wing community has a lot going for it:
1. Better QOL than the boat
2. Per Diem
3. New Aircraft
4. Doing a lot of cool missions
5. Sets you up very well for the outside

And specifically for NFOs, the whole reason P-8s, E-6s, and E-2s are in the air is for the NFOs to work their magic in the back. So not only do you have the above factors, but you are in a platform where you are directly responsible for mission execution. That's pretty rewarding.

Jets still have their cool factor, but Gen Z is also more quality of life focused. Jets arguably have a harder life and they are getting paid the same (not including per diem) as their big-wing brethren. Plus, jets makes you spend a longer time in training and I was very ready to be operational by time I commissioned and completed flight school. Lastly, not everyone can/wants to be the tip of the spear. Everyone has their role in taking out America's enemies and destroying their stuff, but there is a lot that goes into making the U.S. Navy, Marine Corps, Coast Guard and Merchant Marine team into the most lethal maritime force in the world.
 
Physicsguru said:
As far as gaining flight hours, at many air stations there's a flight club where you can get flight lessons, gather hours, get your IFR and multi-engine ratings, etc. I've known a couple of NFOs who were able to build stick hours that way.

Also, there is an annual board for NFO to pilot transition. While someone with two sets of wings is a bit of a unicorn, they are out there. Of course, your performance as an NFO and an officer is the biggest influence on the board.
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Seems like there's been an uptick in NFO to pilot transitions recently. I've met a handful of them currently in primary training with me. Mainly from P-8 and F-18 communities
 
There's also some people who are medically qualified for NFO but not for pilot for one reason or another. If they're still super interested in aviation, then NFO is the way to go for them. Also a number of SNA selectees get the ol' NAMI-whammy down in Pensacola (or at NROTC/USNA/OCS), but they are still medically qualified for SNFO, they're allowed to switch to SNFO.
 
Your entire Navy career from beginning to end will always be based on the needs of the Navy regardless of what Community you are in and more often times than not, you are probably not going to get your first choice. Even if you get SNA, you may not get the aircraft you prefer. I have 2 sons who are now NAs, one went helos, the other P8s. Even as you advance, you are asked for preferences...my helo pilot was in San Diego and wanted West Coast Weapons School....Weapons School was his priority so he's moving to Jax, that's what the Navy needed....my P8 pilot preferenced Jax (knowing his brother is moving there) as his permanent station, at the end of the summer, he's moving to Whidbey. You also have to be prepared for Navy decisions to not necessarily be based on how well you perform. For example when selecting locations, even if a top performer, if you are single, you may not get your first choice because you are easier to move. Both of my DS have said they want to excel at whatever they are given and hopefully that will open the door to future opportunities as time goes on....but the key is to go with the flow and do your best.
 
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