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. . . and chippy.
Life’s so funny…..
- Thread starter Kentucky9
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I've known this all along. My internet friend A1 Janitor is omniknowing.
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I think it’s fair (and even perhaps appreciated) to point out a counter positive BGO experience, in a reply to a negative BGO experience.
Both of you are pointing out your own personal experience. Although @USMC Crayons is including “other parents” in with theirs.
Personally, I appreciate hearing positive experiences. It seems like the negatives are the ones posted, here. I take interest as a BGO. I think being ‘ghosted’ is wrong, and a one off, and will get a BGO fired. It’s NOT the norm. Most of use take our jobs seriously. And LOVE USNA, and seeing kids appointed and flourish.
USMC Crayons
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We know several families that had kids that were candidates for the Class of 2028 (4 to be exact). All of them except one had relatively major issues with the application process. In order:
1. Could not get a BGO assigned through the normal process of contacting admissions and the AC. The AC even emailed and said he was not even "in his system" despite the fact that an application had been submitted for SS, and he had already completed several tasks on the portal. Did the AC take the initiative to shoot a quick email to admissions to see if he could help? Did the AC provide the candidate with any steps that might help? Nope. In fact the AC just decided to ghost the candidate and not respond to any further emails from said candidate.
2. Another candidate had a BGO tell him straight up that he wouldn't interview him unless he had a nomination. He said basically that's there's no need and he's not going to get in anyway.
3. Another homeschooled candidate asked for her BGO to assist her with the CFA since she did not have anyone that was eligible to proctor the test. She lives in a quite rural area and offered to meet the BGO wherever it was convenient for the BGO and asked several months in advance of the admissions cutoff date to be as accommodating as possible. The BGO's response? He said he doesn't do that (Even though the BGO is one of the eligible proctors for the CFA) and recommended she just reach out to the Army Reserve Unit that's about an hour from her house and see if they will do it for her. That's a great look for the Navy, send one of your candidates over to the Army to get it done.
If any of the above is remotely acceptable to you, or you find this to be "false" information or "It's just the way it is" then I guess we believe in different goals for the Naval Service. Is the above anecdotal evidence? Possibly, but even if it happens one time, it's one time too many. 75% just in my tiny sphere of influence would seem to indicate that it's not a one-off situation.
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USMC Crayons
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I give credit where it is due. The BGO that DS finally happened to stumble upon by pure chance, has gone WAY above and beyond. DS could not have asked for a better mentor. Not only did he do a "pre" interview, but spent over an hour with DS for the formal one, and has kept in touch after the fact asking how school's going results of sports events, etc. Not anything crazy, but checking in every 3-4 weeks or so (which I know he doesn't have to do, nor do I expect him to). When DS was turned down, he actually called and said he wanted to come out to the house again to do a debrief with him. He's even helping with DS's ROTC plans next year as he knows the CO. Definitely far beyond what is expected, and I believe it's one reason why DS is still going to re-apply for c/s 2029.
Luck got us to that BGO. It would have been very easy to miss that MOC night. It was not widely publicized and since he didn't have a BGO already to alert him, he would have entirely missed it if my wife didn't happen to see an Insta post for it. Luck also should not be a deciding factor on getting an application completed.
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1) there were system glitches. In fact, I recently had about 20 kids, from prior years, assigned to me, by mistake. There was also staff turnover in the BGO department. Some people moved on. AC’s retire and new ones appointed. BGO’s are reassigned schools and candidates. Did this candidate ultimately get a BGO? I suspect yes. Sounds like it didn’t happen to your expectation, though.
2) not much of a comment here other than either the parent misunderstood, or you did, or the BGO did. Or maybe even a new BGO who didn’t understand. I suspect a miscommunication bc ANY BGO knows that there are noms available beyond MOC/Senator. So no matter, an interview is required for a completed application. Perhaps the misunderstanding was at which POINT to do an interview. Many BGOS don’t do them until half or more of the application is complete.
3) im not confident in timing sports and such. I prefer not to Procter a CFA and would ask the candidate to try another source, first. Does that make me a bad BGO? I hope not.
You have posted your dissatisfaction with BGO’s many times. I doubt there is any further understanding you will consider. But we are humans. And volunteers. And wish nothing but the best for those entertaining USNA.
I prefer to extend grace and come from a standpoint of looking for the best positivity in any situation. Also understanding there is a lot that goes on behind curtains that others don’t know about. Glad you did have a good experience. That’s great to hear. And what I would ultimately expect. Glad it worked out.
2) not much of a comment here other than either the parent misunderstood, or you did, or the BGO did. Or maybe even a new BGO who didn’t understand. I suspect a miscommunication bc ANY BGO knows that there are noms available beyond MOC/Senator. So no matter, an interview is required for a completed application. Perhaps the misunderstanding was at which POINT to do an interview. Many BGOS don’t do them until half or more of the application is complete.
3) im not confident in timing sports and such. I prefer not to Procter a CFA and would ask the candidate to try another source, first. Does that make me a bad BGO? I hope not.
You have posted your dissatisfaction with BGO’s many times. I doubt there is any further understanding you will consider. But we are humans. And volunteers. And wish nothing but the best for those entertaining USNA.
I prefer to extend grace and come from a standpoint of looking for the best positivity in any situation. Also understanding there is a lot that goes on behind curtains that others don’t know about. Glad you did have a good experience. That’s great to hear. And what I would ultimately expect. Glad it worked out.
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I'm still on the BGO email list and feel guilty when the AC asks for volunteers to man a booth or cover another school or go to a last minute career fair or college night. I dropped out because I told the AC I didn't have enough time to properly do the job. I wish I had stuck with it. He said he would keep me in the loop in case I changed my mind. Maybe some day.
This is definitely a throwaway thread, so I'll make my throwaway comment. I disagree with @A1Janitor about almost everything. We could spend hours cataloging our disagreements. Neither of us has met anyone they disagree with more.
One constant, however, has been that he emphasizes how much his DS did on his own. It is a sentiment that is rarely emphasized on SAF or elsewhere. It certainly wasn't the case when our Golden Child was about to graduate HS and I don't think there has been a pendulum swing yet towards less parental involvement.
Our Master of the Universe applied for the AROTC scholarship while in Taiwan on gap year Rotary Exchange. We didn't even know he applied until he got the letter confirming that he was awarded the scholarship, while still in Taiwan. Telecom not being what it is now, I made several phone calls to make sure that the host school and the ROTC unit were on the same page.
@A1Janitor , don't get comfortable with this amount of support going forward.
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Sometimes a sarcasm emoji is unnecessary.
As to all of the comments about how BGOs should be mentors, provide continuing answers to questions, hold hands through the process, and meet other variable duties and responsibilities, yes, the BGO will ideally be able and willing to meet all of those expectations. However, after reading the BGO handbook, the expectation equates to a full time job. This is simply not reasonable for a volunteer.
I have many years in overseeing volunteer program operations, and the level of commitment from those volunteers varies wildly, depending large part on how much personal investment they have in the process. Some volunteers are able to serve successfully in what equates to a full-time employed commitment. However, others barely meet the minimum. This is simply an unavoidable consequence of using volunteers to fill a role that might otherwise be satisfied by full-time paid employees.
I do think that, for the most part, the BGO volunteers are highly motivated individuals who are seeking to provide the best level of service possible both to the naval Academy and to the applicants that are applying. But there will be varying levels of success and fulfilling that commitment. For the applicants that are lucky enough to retain the services of a BTO that has the time and the focus to meet all of those myriad responsibilities, then they are the lucky ones. But applicants should not expect that the BGOs exist to serve as their own personal valet when it comes to the academy application experience.
To be honest, the only expectation is that the BGO will conduct an interview at some point in the process prior to the application deadline. Anything else is just gravy.
For DD1, the only expectation she had was that the BGO would be able to conduct the interview. Any other questions that she might have had were able to to be answered through available online resources. As for the homeschooled CFA issue, that really is the responsibility of the homeschooled student, since they are applying through an already known non-standard process.
I appreciate the angst and frustration that parents and applicants experience through the application journey, even though I'm not really able to emphasize since both of my daughters were not subject to long-term delays in receiving their offers of appointment. But it does seem like an easy excuse to blame the disappointment on some third party, in this case the BGOs, when the reality is the Admissions decision is a highly complex equation.
USMC Crayons
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If the only expectation of a BGO is to have one interaction with a candidate via an interview, that’s cool. But the Naval Academy needs to set that expectation with candidates that are not familiar with the process. Because I can tell you, that’s not the picture that is painted on the USNA website and the collateral that they hand out. Hindsight being 20/20 it appears that the BGO interview is largely irrelevant. If DS had known that, he wouldn’t have wasted weeks trying to get his issue of not being assigned fixed.
DS’s BGO is the best! 
He is an alumni and travels to the yard a couple of times a year to take “his MIDS” out to lunch or dinner.
Plus, when my DS is home they always get together. I also help him throughout the year at local USNA events.
He told me just yesterday that he is so blessed with all of the great families that he has gotten to know and stays in touch with over his MANY, MANY years as a BGO.
He is an alumni and travels to the yard a couple of times a year to take “his MIDS” out to lunch or dinner.
Plus, when my DS is home they always get together. I also help him throughout the year at local USNA events.
He told me just yesterday that he is so blessed with all of the great families that he has gotten to know and stays in touch with over his MANY, MANY years as a BGO.
IronmanDaremo
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Old Navy BGO
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USNA has over 1200 BGO's...all volunteers and with varying levels of commitment to the program. If there is a legitimate issue, it should be reported to USNA ...not SAF. That said, I see so many mistatements about BGO' expectations on here, I don't know where to start. Just a couple random thoughts from this thread alone -
I have observed this locally. I know my West Point counterpart well (or at least did until he moved earlier this year), and he was much more a recruiter/cheerleader/advocate. The is not the BGO role , our job is promote awareness, be available to answer questions, interview candidates, etc. I am sure that some BGO's slip into the recruiter mode, but that's not my style.
Perhaps overstated, but I generally agree. I am responsive and answer questions, but I do expect my candidates to do a fair amount of due diligence. themselves. I learned long ago the old adage that "there is no such thing as a stupid question" is not true -- I expect Candidates to read the USNA website and know the basics before asking. ( I don't expect them to Google..all candidates should read the USNA.edu Admissions website., most of the information you need is there !). One thing for sure -- I don't (and neither should other BGO's) try to "read the tea leaves," about Admission decisions. That's not our job , and for the most part, we don't have all the information. (That said, I've been doing this for long enough that I have a pretty good idea about whether a candidate is competitive, but I will never tell them what I think).
There are a lot of things that BGO's know, and Candidates don't ....and in most cases, there is no need to know. I've said it here before..all you really need to know is the information on the official USNA websites. There really is no need to know all the whos, whats, and why's of the Admissions process. Sometimes its seems people on SAF are obsessed with details and a process they have no ability to control ...all you can really do is submit the best application and wait patiently. The speculation and vitriol on these pages the middle of April was over the top this year, and it didn't help anything.
It's great that a BGO does this, but well beyond the expectations and certainly not feasible for most of us. When I am in the DC/Annapolis area, I am visiting family and/or attending a Reunion, and the last thing on my mind is past candidates.DS’s BGO is the best!
He is an alumni and travels to the yard a couple of times a year to take “his MIDS” out to lunch or dinne
Kentucky9
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As a retiring public educator, I do have a strong bias towards servant leadership and consumer relations. My point was that the FFO was honest, and established question and answer sessions, even a personal meeting with a USMA cadet.
This BGO, unlike the one the previous cycle, didn’t come accross to my son as even wanting to be there.
It’s a moot point anyway. Onward upward
A1Janitor
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You read the BGO handbook?
Not sure what information that book would have that would be useful for an applicant, or his family members.
USMC Crayons
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Some of you are never happy on here. Don't call us, look it up on your own, but when you do look it up that's wrong too. When it's almost November and you don't have a BGO assigned and the AC "doesn't see you in the system" you or your DS wouldn't go on google to get information on the the BGO does? Did he read it back to back? No. But the part that describes what a BGO does was very helpful.
LOL. I had to look since I was curious. Apparently the interview is subject to FOIA requests. So, overbearing parents CAN find out if reluctant Jr quietly asked BGO not to recommend to avoid getting accepted.
Other than that, it read about what I would have expected.
Mallard Duck
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I am a literal nobody in this group, forum, topic, etc.....
First and foremost, I have little or no experience with the Navy and/or the BGO program, however, I when my pal who lived down the hall, but now resides at Bancroft was applying to the USNA, I can say that I was nothing short of highly impressed with the Blue and Gold officer who assisted with the process.
Perhaps assisted is the wrong word. In our case the BGO mentored, urged, promoted, assisted, and encouraged my future plebe all along the way. Don't get me wrong, there wasn't this big interaction or intrusive situation, but when the BGO was needed, they were there immediately and locked and loaded with thorough and consistent answers. Talk about a nice person, this former Naval Commander was. I was highly impressed.
To my surprise though, in a neighboring community, I find out by talking to other parents in that area (and not just one or two sets of parents that butted heads, etc.); but by almost each and every one. Scratch that... unanimously this group tells of a BGO that is horrible.
So, the take-away for me is that there are clearly some BGOs that take the job serious enough and are good enough citizens that take the time to do service to their country, and others who just don't.
I realize that maybe 'Justdoit' and perhaps others view anecdotal as mere by-product of the whole system, and prefer to focus on what is good, but that may not necessarily be in the best interest of the program. Note - this is not a dig at you JD.
In my experience in my field of expertise, when there is a problem no matter how small, these should be addressed immediately, fully, and with zeal or people can get physically hurt.
In the case I referenced above, the other parents I heard from, they indicated that complaints had gone up to the people in charge with no, change to the situation which has been on-going.
I'm wondering if the system would be better served by a Blue and Gold committee or BGOs with assistants in an area as opposed to individual BGO's who are autonomous and sometimes autocratic in nature. --please advise.
Also, what does the acronym AC stand for?
Sorry about the long post.
First and foremost, I have little or no experience with the Navy and/or the BGO program, however, I when my pal who lived down the hall, but now resides at Bancroft was applying to the USNA, I can say that I was nothing short of highly impressed with the Blue and Gold officer who assisted with the process.
Perhaps assisted is the wrong word. In our case the BGO mentored, urged, promoted, assisted, and encouraged my future plebe all along the way. Don't get me wrong, there wasn't this big interaction or intrusive situation, but when the BGO was needed, they were there immediately and locked and loaded with thorough and consistent answers. Talk about a nice person, this former Naval Commander was. I was highly impressed.
To my surprise though, in a neighboring community, I find out by talking to other parents in that area (and not just one or two sets of parents that butted heads, etc.); but by almost each and every one. Scratch that... unanimously this group tells of a BGO that is horrible.
So, the take-away for me is that there are clearly some BGOs that take the job serious enough and are good enough citizens that take the time to do service to their country, and others who just don't.
I realize that maybe 'Justdoit' and perhaps others view anecdotal as mere by-product of the whole system, and prefer to focus on what is good, but that may not necessarily be in the best interest of the program. Note - this is not a dig at you JD.
In my experience in my field of expertise, when there is a problem no matter how small, these should be addressed immediately, fully, and with zeal or people can get physically hurt.
In the case I referenced above, the other parents I heard from, they indicated that complaints had gone up to the people in charge with no, change to the situation which has been on-going.
I'm wondering if the system would be better served by a Blue and Gold committee or BGOs with assistants in an area as opposed to individual BGO's who are autonomous and sometimes autocratic in nature. --please advise.
Also, what does the acronym AC stand for?
Sorry about the long post.
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The Area Coordinator is the VOLUNTEER that is in charge of the BGOs within a given area. The BGOs are far from autonomous who report only to Admissions but rather have the AC in their state/area who is watching the BGO portal and sees when candidates have most or all of their stuff done without an interview. The ACs that I've worked with are very involved and will reach out when there is a missing interview or other issue. When a candidate is evaluated at the absolute top or bottom ratings, the AC reviews and approves/endorses the rating. ACs will often coordinate multi-BGO events such as college fairs, Congressional Academy Days and/or appearance at Boys State.
Basically kind of what you're describing as a BGO committee or BGO with assistants.