Recruiting woes

[unkown1961]

The pay/benefits are good. The question is do they justify the sacrifices that servicemembers must make if they could earn comparably as a civilian. I think its an easy yes as a twenty-something with little experience and no family. But for those more experienced servicemembers who have a spouse and kids, when the job offers start coming in its a much closer call.

I was considering 18 year old E1s since the article was about recruiting enlisted. Per the DFAS site:

1. Basic pay for an E-1 with less than 4 months of active duty is $1,865.10.

An 18 year old can make more at Costco. I’m not saying that Costco is a better opportunity all things considered but to a 18 year old the numbers probably look better. That doesn’t take into account free medical but I’m guessing most 18 year olds don’t see the benefit of that.
That was the gist of my reply. Also I hope you’re not seeing many 18 year olds looking for a mortgage especially given they’ll be moving in 3-4 years.

 

[Kierkegaard]

I was considering 18 year old E1s since the article was about recruiting enlisted. Per the DFAS site:

1. Basic pay for an E-1 with less than 4 months of active duty is $1,865.10.

An 18 year old can make more at Costco. I’m not saying that Costco is a better opportunity all things considered but to a 18 year old the numbers probably look better. That doesn’t take into account free medical but I’m guessing most 18 year olds don’t see the benefit of that.
That was the gist of my reply. Also I hope you’re not seeing many 18 year olds looking for a mortgage especially given they’ll be moving in 3-4 years.

But will Costco give them a place to sleep and 3 meals a day? (Granted, you could buy a lot of their hot dogs on any wage ).

They'll only be an E-1 with less than 4 months in service for, well, 4 months. When they promote to E-3 after 18 months, they're now getting closer to $2400. By that point they've been in training, which depending on their rate could be useful when they get out. Then you've got GI bill. I hesitate to mention healthcare because if you're 18-20 and eligible to join, you probably don't have many healthcare costs anyway, unless you have dependents. A 4-year enlistment is still a great way to leave a small town, grow as a person, save up some petty cash, see some cool things, and then use the GI Bill to get into a well-paying career path.

Lots of caveats. They could be sleeping on a ship or in moldy barracks. The food might not be tasty or healthy. Their supervisor could be a massive A**hole. Honestly this quality of life stuff is way more of an issue than pay. Social media seems to have brought a lot of QoL problems to light and I wonder how much of a factor that is on recruiting. Junior enlisted post pictures of their slop dinner or condemnable barracks, as they should when it's not being taken seriously, then the general public catches on and realizes its not all like the recruiting ads that come on during football.

But yeah, either QoL needs to improve or pay needs to rise to make it worth it. Either way congressional action is required, because in both cases it comes down to the F-word: Funding.

 

[USMC Crayons]

I was considering 18 year old E1s since the article was about recruiting enlisted. Per the DFAS site:

1. Basic pay for an E-1 with less than 4 months of active duty is $1,865.10.

An 18 year old can make more at Costco. I’m not saying that Costco is a better opportunity all things considered but to a 18 year old the numbers probably look better. That doesn’t take into account free medical but I’m guessing most 18 year olds don’t see the benefit of that.
That was the gist of my reply. Also I hope you’re not seeing many 18 year olds looking for a mortgage especially given they’ll be moving in 3-4 years.

Here's the thing, that 18 year old is not getting a job at Costco. Have you seen the competition to land a job like that? Everyone comes up with these scenarios where 18 year olds are just crushing it, and with maybe some rare exceptions, that's not what's happening. They are lucky to have a decent full time job. I also don't think base pay for a recruit is really the comparison we need to use here. How about an E-3 with 2 years in? That's $30k/ year with no expenses (other than if they want to buy a car). How many single 20 year olds make $30k that is totally discretionary income? Here's an even better one. Have a client right now active duty Navy. She went in as an E-3, so I am assuming probably a nuke. 3 years of service, already an E-5. 21 years old, and married. Current LES with her additional pay is $7269/month. How many 21 year olds do you know making almost $90k per year? ETS is coming up in June, so she can either re-enlist with a fat bonus, or separate and take her full ride GI Bill, or land a civilian job.

 

[justme]

Or do JROTC, recruit a friend, earn Eagle, etc and start above E1. Maybe even E4.

And if they do NG, they could get close to free college in many states and deployments could 40k plus for the year and getting access to 60% GI bill.

Very few 20 year olds are getting close to that. And many MOS or rates can come with serious bonus money.

Financial challenges should not be a problem for a single recent hs grad. I totally agree regarding 30 with a family.

 

[Hopful_Mil_Kid]

Standards -- not just military standards, but standards period -- are in sharp decline nationwide. This is the result.

Unless we as a society can find a way to reorient toward accountability and objective standards of excellence, the military will continue to struggle to find its desired number of qualified applicants.

My two cents. I doubt many (any?) will argue.

You're right, the military recruitment issues are mostly about the rest of the country. I think you are missing a strong economic issue.

"Kids" feel like old people with houses and families telling young people to just "deal with it" rings hollow. (Not pointing fingers to people on this form, but just in general.) If you look at cost of living statistics (especially for the lower and middle class) then wages in real terms are just now recovering from the pandemic. They are nowhere near where they were in the 80's and 90's. Young people live at home with their parents because they have no hope of affording a house.

Ultimately, I think it comes down to patriotism. The youth of today are generally quite idealistic. They don't want to join a military that they feel is supporting a system that is SYSTEMATICALLY screwing them over. The people who voted for the policies that created this situation haggle about whether it's pay, benefits, or leadership environment, but it's really the politics of the rest of the country.

 

[pa-outdoorsman]

You're right, the military recruitment issues are mostly about the rest of the country. I think you are missing a strong economic issue.

"Kids" feel like old people with houses and families telling young people to just "deal with it" rings hollow. (Not pointing fingers to people on this form, but just in general.) If you look at cost of living statistics (especially for the lower and middle class) then wages in real terms are just now recovering from the pandemic. They are nowhere near where they were in the 80's and 90's. Young people live at home with their parents because they have no hope of affording a house.

Ultimately, I think it comes down to patriotism. The youth of today are generally quite idealistic. They don't want to join a military that they feel is supporting a system that is SYSTEMATICALLY screwing them over. The people who voted for the policies that created this situation haggle about whether it's pay, benefits, or leadership environment, but it's really the politics of the rest of the country.

This brings me to the Zen question I ask many people, of all ages and political persuasions: "Is the United States government redeemable? Or, has the 'system' become so corrupt that it can never be restored as a true servant of the people?"

I don't claim to know the answer to this question, but the attempt to answer it invariably elicits interesting discussion. As the father of a DS who now appears on track to commit much of his early adulthood to serving the nation, I don't think I can have any choice other than hold out hope that our future leaders can indeed make positive changes.

 

[Hopful_Mil_Kid]

This brings me to the Zen question I ask many people, of all ages and political persuasions: "Is the United States government redeemable? Or, has the 'system' become so corrupt that it can never be restored as a true servant of the people?"

I don't claim to know the answer to this question, but the attempt to answer it invariably elicits interesting discussion. As the father of a DS who now appears on track to commit much of his early adulthood to serving the nation, I don't think I can have any choice other than hold out hope that our future leaders can indeed make positive changes.

Yeah. This is something I struggled with for a long time before I decided to actually apply and pursue the military path, and I don't have an answer.

Whether it can be fixed is something we can't know or control. Whether it will be fixed is something you, I, and your son can have an affect on (however small.)

What I realized was that whether the us is "redeemed" will come down to many small actions taken by many many people. If the system is fixable, whether it gets fixed is a self-fulfilling prophecy; if enough people believe that institutions can be fixed (and work to fix them) then they will be fixed. If people give up, there is 0 chance that they will just magically fix themselves.

But yeah, I live in a hippy liberal town, and I've had some very animated conversations with classmates, parents and other people who think I'm either committing a terrible sin by trying to join the military or think that I'm going to be eviscerated in some terrible accident or a war against some poor farmers halfway around the world.

 

[pa-outdoorsman]

Yeah. This is something I struggled with for a long time before I decided to actually apply and pursue the military path, and I don't have an answer.

Whether it can be fixed is something we can't know or control. Whether it will be fixed is something you, I, and your son can have an affect on (however small.)

What I realized was that whether the us is "redeemed" will come down to many small actions taken by many many people. If the system is fixable, whether it gets fixed is a self-fulfilling prophecy; if enough people believe that institutions can be fixed (and work to fix them) then they will be fixed. If people give up, there is 0 chance that they will just magically fix themselves.

But yeah, I live in a hippy liberal town, and I've had some very animated conversations with classmates, parents and other people who think I'm either committing a terrible sin by trying to join the military or think that I'm going to be eviscerated in some terrible accident or a war against some poor farmers halfway around the world.

This is excellent. Young people such as you are what gives us older folks hope for the future. I wish you the best of luck, and you are right: do what you can, where you can, while you can.

 

[Hopful_Mil_Kid]

This is excellent. Young people such as you are what gives us older folks hope for the future. I wish you the best of luck, and you are right: do what you can, where you can, while you can.

Thank you for your kind words, and I'll definitely do my best!

That being said, it's a big organization inside an even bigger organization with lots of institutional momentum. Regardless of what impact I can have as an individual, if enough people set out to really fix stuff, hopefully, change will happen.

 

[StPaulDad]

It's the only way things will happen.

Waiting for the "other" side to finally collapse and make way so the "correct" side can finally get thing set to rights is folly. The true way forward is getting enough people back into public life who believe in compromise and shared responsibility for the future. People who believe more in governing and solutions than elections and issues. It can't happen on a broad scale because it can't be beholden to whatever large party might make it happen. You need independent people who want to get things changed, improved, moving without getting hung up on the political scorekeeping. It's a super-idealistic dream, but there are a lot of tough issues coming like Social Security solvency that are not going to be solved without grasping the nettle and saying the hard unpleasant things out loud, and that'll never happen with the election-centric political parties we have running things now.

 

[Devil Doc]

 

[conrack]

Maybe the military needs to consider increasing pay and benefits, to be more competitive with the private sector that appears to be more attractive to kids looking for jobs right now.

Can you name a civilian job that offers free medical care, generous retirement after 20 years, housing allowance, paid moving expenses and 30 days paid vacation a year??? Maybe the pay rates could be increased a bit but how high is 'competitive' for somebody with no job skills and a high school education???

 

[flieger83]

Can you name a civilian job that offers free medical care, generous retirement after 20 years, housing allowance, paid moving expenses and 30 days paid vacation a year??? Maybe the pay rates could be increased a bit but how high is 'competitive' for somebody with no job skills and a high school education???

Federal Inmate?

Okay, the vacation parts a stretch...unless you consider "the hole" a vacation spot???