To validate or not to validate

OldRetSWO said:
Did you really enjoy it THAT much?

Yes, I know that you are pre-plebe summer. . . My comment was spurred by how you sound like you've already done it.


I won't try to speak for you but I will tell you that my classmates and I were EXTREMELY EAGER to get to the fleet. After 13 yrs of public school and 4 years of USNA, my friends and I were very very ready to actually get out there and lead. I certainly didn't need yet another break (school) before starting my real life.
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I have an academy grad brother attending civilian grad school at a top university right now. He is loving the college experience and highly suggests working hard enough to gain an opportunity like it. I was just expressing what he has told me and what he tells me every time I talk to him.
 
I will give you a little different take and the third option you are not considering. From experience from my time and also my DD who is a 2021 graduate. In my opinion it is not an all or nothing choice. They also have "advanced" classes that are between the two; USMA called the advanced Calculus Jedi Math. I would suggest that the courses that build on each other should not be validated because the academy program is built to use all the classes in series. I was put in a "experimental" section of Physics that was going to be a completely different approach. While I though that was cool, I almost failed Statics and Dynamics because everyone else in the class had two semesters of blocks sliding down incline planes from the traditional Physics and I had only had a couple of weeks of it. If you want an engineering major, take the advanced Calculus instead of trying to validate and look to validate English and History. Same if you want to be a History major; Validated Calculus or Chemistry but start at the beginning of the History courses.
 
USMA 1994 said:
I will give you a little different take and the third option you are not considering. From experience from my time and also my DD who is a 2021 graduate. In my opinion it is not an all or nothing choice. They also have "advanced" classes that are between the two; USMA called the advanced Calculus Jedi Math. I would suggest that the courses that build on each other should not be validated because the academy program is built to use all the classes in series. I was put in a "experimental" section of Physics that was going to be a completely different approach. While I though that was cool, I almost failed Statics and Dynamics because everyone else in the class had two semesters of blocks sliding down incline planes from the traditional Physics and I had only had a couple of weeks of it. If you want an engineering major, take the advanced Calculus instead of trying to validate and look to validate English and History. Same if you want to be a History major; Validated Calculus or Chemistry but start at the beginning of the History courses.
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That is kind of the problem… I want to major in STEM and the only classes I care enough about to get a good enough AP score in are STEM classes haha. So the only classes I can validate, I don’t want to. Well besides econ, I dig econ. But seriously who is getting a 5 in AP english lit. My teacher hasn’t gotten up from her desk all year haha.

Here is another question: How many classes do I have to validate to make it worth it? Meaning, how many do I have to validate to reasonably have a “free” semester. Maybe I’m not understanding it correctly, but would validating 1 or 2 classes be that beneficial? Isn’t it one of those all or nothing scenarios where I would have to validate like at least 3-4 classes for it to be worth it?
 
OiledPancakes said:
I have an academy grad brother attending civilian grad school at a top university right now. He is loving the college experience and highly suggests working hard enough to gain an opportunity like it. I was just expressing what he has told me and what he tells me every time I talk to him.
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Ah. That clarifies the viewpoint a little bit. Anecdotallly, you have heard they are enjoying themselves. I am glad they are. Reality will come soon enough.
Sharing a ruefully funny comment from a USNA sponsor mid alumni family member who went to Harvard’s Kennedy School of Govt via IGEP and then to sea duty first Navy ship: “That was a long, brutal fall from the ivory tower when I realized I was the stupidest LTJG on the ship with zero professional expertise, 2 years behind classmates in warfare qualification. I had to work extraordinarily hard to close the competitive gap, and my first year of sea duty was exhausting and demoralizing, but I did it - and was glad to be with ‘my people’ again, doing what I was supposed to do - learning how to be a professional naval officer.”
 
... so watching my DS going through Plebe year and 3/C year, I recommend not to validate. Instead, embraced being a Plebe (master the Midshipman lifestyle); make new friends - Mids, civilian staff, other cadets on the yard (if you're still in the service after 10 years, you'll serve together in joint commands), and civilians during football games. Then if you're really smart, like brilliant, aim for 4.0 GPA and top 10% Order of Merit (OOM) as a Plebe.
 
Capt MJ said:
Ah. That clarifies the viewpoint a little bit. Anecdotallly, you have heard they are enjoying themselves. I am glad they are. Reality will come soon enough.
Sharing a ruefully funny comment from a USNA sponsor mid alumni family member who went to Harvard’s Kennedy School of Govt via IGEP and then to sea duty first Navy ship: “That was a long, brutal fall from the ivory tower when I realized I was the stupidest LTJG on the ship with zero professional expertise, 2 years behind classmates in warfare qualification. I had to work extraordinarily hard to close the competitive gap, and my first year of sea duty was exhausting and demoralizing, but I did it - and was glad to be with ‘my people’ again, doing what I was supposed to do - learning how to be a professional naval officer.”
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Well, I guess it definitely depends what job you do. I see attending a graduate school before service as being a lot harder on a SWO’s career than an aviator’s career. There’s give and take to everything and it definitely matters what your plans are for after service. I’m not completely sure I want to do the entire 20 year deal. I could see myself going to grad school and being an aviator for 10 or so years. I don’t know if I could see myself as a flag officer or anything like that really. Time will tell and I certainly have some time. Every person is different and grad school is great for some and detrimental to others.
 
OiledPancakes said:
That is kind of the problem… I want to major in STEM and the only classes I care enough about to get a good enough AP score in are STEM classes haha. So the only classes I can validate, I don’t want to. Well besides econ, I dig econ. But seriously who is getting a 5 in AP english lit. My teacher hasn’t gotten up from her desk all year haha.

Here is another question: How many classes do I have to validate to make it worth it? Meaning, how many do I have to validate to reasonably have a “free” semester. Maybe I’m not understanding it correctly, but would validating 1 or 2 classes be that beneficial? Isn’t it one of those all or nothing scenarios where I would have to validate like at least 3-4 classes for it to be worth it?
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How soon you see the benefits of validating a class depends on that class. Classes like Government and US Naval History are ones where if validated you will have an immediate free period as a result as they're "one and done" courses that don't have another version coming after unlike calculus. If you validated both semesters of chemistry, you're done with it for the rest of your time at the academy unless you major in chemistry.

I wouldn't get too hung up on whether or not you see the benefit sooner or later. I would argue it's better to validate than not if you have a choice. Now, if you can validate calc 1 but don't feel too confident going into calc 2 straightaway then it's okay to not validate calc 1 and retake it. That's what I did and I'm glad for it. It is not prerequisite to validate a ton of classes to get into grad school. Validate what you feel confident in.
 
If you have the required AP credit for validation, do you still need to take the validation exam during plebe summer?
 
OiledPancakes said:
That is kind of the problem… I want to major in STEM and the only classes I care enough about to get a good enough AP score in are STEM classes haha. So the only classes I can validate, I don’t want to. Well besides econ, I dig econ. But seriously who is getting a 5 in AP english lit. My teacher hasn’t gotten up from her desk all year haha.

Here is another question: How many classes do I have to validate to make it worth it? Meaning, how many do I have to validate to reasonably have a “free” semester. Maybe I’m not understanding it correctly, but would validating 1 or 2 classes be that beneficial? Isn’t it one of those all or nothing scenarios where I would have to validate like at least 3-4 classes for it to be worth it?
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That is a bit of a loaded question. A lot of it depends on what major you do since they have different class/credit loads. Oceanography might be a bit easier to get a free semester than Mech E, for example.

Also, don't discount your humanities/non-STEM courses. Regardless of your major, you will have to take humanities/social science classes. Gen Eds don't stop after Plebe Year. It
 
navy_blue said:
If you have the required AP credit for validation, do you still need to take the validation exam during plebe summer?
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It depends on the course/department. Some will have tests administered during PS and others will rely solely off AP scores.

www.usna.edu

USNA Course Validation Policy

Course Validation Policy page for Academics at USNA.edu. Updated Tue Sep 05 07:55:06 EDT 2023.
www.usna.edu
 
Usnavy2019 said:
It depends on the course/department. Some will have tests administered during PS and others will rely solely off AP scores.

www.usna.edu

USNA Course Validation Policy

Course Validation Policy page for Academics at USNA.edu. Updated Tue Sep 05 07:55:06 EDT 2023.
www.usna.edu
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Yep I looked through this page before posting but was a bit confused as some had both, such as calculus. I was wondering as I want to review some courses before plebe summer if I still need to validate by testing.
 
OiledPancakes said:
I am an entering plebe and I am wondering if I should validate courses. Here are my thoughts so far: I want to attend graduate school at a civilian university after the academy (before service). I have heard that if you are near the top of your class first year academically then you are eligible for a seminar class called IGEP that is focused on helping you get into a top civilian grad school (Harvard, Stanford, UMich). I have also heard about VGEP (when you take classes at Georgetown during your eighth semester at the academy), but IGEP sounds better to me.

Here are my scores and what I will probably get on future tests:

AP Stats: 5
AP Psych: 5
AP Macro: 5
AP Gov: I am predicting a 4 but it could be a 3. Not sure yet.
AP Calc AB: 5
AP Physics 1: 4, maybe 5

A grad I know said not to validate really anything. I will be plenty busy my first year and if I am already familiar with the first year academics, I will be able to spend more time trying to join clubs and ensuring I get great grades in order to go for the IGEP program. I already know I will not validate physics because I think my teacher was not that great and I want to make sure I get a good grasp on it. I mostly need advice on if I should validate the other classes. I think I know calc, but if I am going to be there for four years anyway, do I really care if I take calc 1 first semester? Is the plebe poli sci course interesting or should I try to validate? What about validating the other courses I am taking?

I know there are many questions to be answered in this post and it is kind of all over the place. Thank you to anyone who attempts to break it down and gives me some sort of help.
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Validate. Water under the bridge
 
Validate as much as you can! Even one free period a week is nice! My guys both validated a bunch. Both did grad school directly after graduation. Good luck!!
 
Is the validation completed by either a placement exam or high scores on the AP exams or do plebes have to do both? I have all 5's but I took Calculus BC over a year ago and decided not to take Calc III my senior year, I will be automatically placed in Calc III because I don't think I will be successful without at least retaking Calc II.
 
texasjzw said:
Is the validation completed by either a placement exam or high scores on the AP exams or do plebes have to do both? I have all 5's but I took Calculus BC over a year ago and decided not to take Calc III my senior year, I will be automatically placed in Calc III because I don't think I will be successful without at least retaking Calc II.
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Grab a calc II textbook before I day to refresh.

You got this.
 
Validate as much as possible. There is no benefit to repeating a class if you don’t have to. Having free periods and/or interesting electives in your schedule makes your life better.
—Former mid
 
Usnavy2019 said:
Also, don't discount your humanities/non-STEM courses. Regardless of your major, you will have to take humanities/social science classes. Gen Eds don't stop after Plebe Year. It
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I took 3 humanities classes the whole time. 1 semester of English, Naval History, and Asia and the Modern World. I hated the non-major courses and wanted to take as many major electives as possible. Helped with service assignment too.

I've said this before, but the USNA validation page on the website is not exhaustive; it just covers Plebe courses most mids coming from high school would have questions about. Course validation policy is determined by the department and varies.

For folks coming from college, credits don't transfer, but that doesn't mean you can't validate every single course you just took in college and get that time back for free electives, semester abroad, VGEP, or dual major.

Validation opens up options. You always want options. Don't make the assumption Calc will be easier because you already took AP Calc in high school, it might still suck just as much, and now you have to do three semesters of it instead of two because you didn't validate.

9 credits, 3 classes will make semester abroad or VGEP feasible if you take summer school one summer and/or overload one semester.

12 credits, 4 classes will more definitively clear a semester, with summer school or overloading probably optional depending on major.
 
nuensis said:
I took 3 humanities classes the whole time. 1 semester of English, Naval History, and Asia and the Modern World. I hated the non-major courses and wanted to take as many major electives as possible. Helped with service assignment too.

I've said this before, but the USNA validation page on the website is not exhaustive; it just covers Plebe courses most mids coming from high school would have questions about. Course validation policy is determined by the department and varies.

For folks coming from college, credits don't transfer, but that doesn't mean you can't validate every single course you just took in college and get that time back for free electives, semester abroad, VGEP, or dual major.

Validation opens up options. You always want options. Don't make the assumption Calc will be easier because you already took AP Calc in high school, it might still suck just as much, and now you have to do three semesters of it instead of two because you didn't validate.

9 credits, 3 classes will make semester abroad or VGEP feasible if you take summer school one summer and/or overload one semester.

12 credits, 4 classes will more definitively clear a semester, with summer school or overloading probably optional depending on major.
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Thank you, that was really helpful!

I think I can validate macro econ, calc 1, US History, Geography (if that’s a thing), Stats, Psych, and maybe a couple of others so I should be good
 
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