To validate or not to validate

[OiledPancakes]

I am an entering plebe and I am wondering if I should validate courses. Here are my thoughts so far: I want to attend graduate school at a civilian university after the academy (before service). I have heard that if you are near the top of your class first year academically then you are eligible for a seminar class called IGEP that is focused on helping you get into a top civilian grad school (Harvard, Stanford, UMich). I have also heard about VGEP (when you take classes at Georgetown during your eighth semester at the academy), but IGEP sounds better to me.

Here are my scores and what I will probably get on future tests:

AP Stats: 5
AP Psych: 5
AP Macro: 5
AP Gov: I am predicting a 4 but it could be a 3. Not sure yet.
AP Calc AB: 5
AP Physics 1: 4, maybe 5

A grad I know said not to validate really anything. I will be plenty busy my first year and if I am already familiar with the first year academics, I will be able to spend more time trying to join clubs and ensuring I get great grades in order to go for the IGEP program. I already know I will not validate physics because I think my teacher was not that great and I want to make sure I get a good grasp on it. I mostly need advice on if I should validate the other classes. I think I know calc, but if I am going to be there for four years anyway, do I really care if I take calc 1 first semester? Is the plebe poli sci course interesting or should I try to validate? What about validating the other courses I am taking?

I know there are many questions to be answered in this post and it is kind of all over the place. Thank you to anyone who attempts to break it down and gives me some sort of help.

 

[A1Janitor]

My son didn’t validate anything. He now believes it was a mistake - he could have had a double major or gotten certain billets had his schedule allowed.

But he has grand plans of engineering masters, and likely more after he retires.

 

[Capt MJ]

I am an entering plebe and I am wondering if I should validate courses. Here are my thoughts so far: I want to attend graduate school at a civilian university after the academy (before service). I have heard that if you are near the top of your class first year academically then you are eligible for a seminar class called IGEP that is focused on helping you get into a top civilian grad school (Harvard, Stanford, UMich). I have also heard about VGEP (when you take classes at Georgetown during your eighth semester at the academy), but IGEP sounds better to me.

Here are my scores and what I will probably get on future tests:

AP Stats: 5
AP Psych: 5
AP Macro: 5
AP Gov: I am predicting a 4 but it could be a 3. Not sure yet.
AP Calc AB: 5
AP Physics 1: 4, maybe 5

A grad I know said not to validate really anything. I will be plenty busy my first year and if I am already familiar with the first year academics, I will be able to spend more time trying to join clubs and ensuring I get great grades in order to go for the IGEP program. I already know I will not validate physics because I think my teacher was not that great and I want to make sure I get a good grasp on it. I mostly need advice on if I should validate the other classes. I think I know calc, but if I am going to be there for four years anyway, do I really care if I take calc 1 first semester? Is the plebe poli sci course interesting or should I try to validate? What about validating the other courses I am taking?

I know there are many questions to be answered in this post and it is kind of all over the place. Thank you to anyone who attempts to break it down and gives me some sort of help.

One thing at a time - satisfactorily complete Plebe Summer. See what you might be able to validate. You will have an academic adviser, plus attend briefs on various programs, and your plebe schedule will be settled. USNA has decades of experience doing this. You will have to see how you do with academics, plus you must perform well in other graded areas - military aptitude/performance, PE, PRT, conduct, etc. You are going from being a top-performing frog in your own pond to a pond with frogs just like you.

USNA decides whether it will validate any of your classes. USNA.edu has many pages on validation policies and requirements, IGEP and VGEP. Keep an open mind to all the other opportunities and allow yourself room to grow and discover new options. The vast majority of USNA/NROTC/OCS grads do not pursue their graduate degree right after USNA; they get on with their pursuit of their professional training and warfare qualifications. Officers generally obtain their master’s degree after their first operational tours and before they come up for paygrade O-5 promotion. There are several options, and you can search SAF for the multiple threads that relate.

There is no rush. There are pros and cons to each path; here’s one scenario. You go to a 2-year engineering school doing IGEP. You then go to a 2-year training pipeline for aviation or submarines. You report to your first operational duty at year 4. Your classmates have earned professional qualifications and earned their warfare pin and tracking on promotions. You report to your first sub with a shiny advanced degree, and meet people standing watch on the quarterdeck who were a couple of years behind you at USNA, and you are not qualified to stand one professional watch. This all evens out, as those officers roll ashore and obtain their Master’s at the usual career junctures. You will have a near-vertical climb to catch up, professionally, and it can be done. When it is time for your shore duty, you might get interesting opportunities because you don’t have to chase your degree.

 

[justdoit19]

I am an entering plebe and I am wondering if I should validate courses. Here are my thoughts so far: I want to attend graduate school at a civilian university after the academy (before service). I have heard that if you are near the top of your class first year academically then you are eligible for a seminar class called IGEP that is focused on helping you get into a top civilian grad school (Harvard, Stanford, UMich). I have also heard about VGEP (when you take classes at Georgetown during your eighth semester at the academy), but IGEP sounds better to me.

Here are my scores and what I will probably get on future tests:

AP Stats: 5
AP Psych: 5
AP Macro: 5
AP Gov: I am predicting a 4 but it could be a 3. Not sure yet.
AP Calc AB: 5
AP Physics 1: 4, maybe 5

A grad I know said not to validate really anything. I will be plenty busy my first year and if I am already familiar with the first year academics, I will be able to spend more time trying to join clubs and ensuring I get great grades in order to go for the IGEP program. I already know I will not validate physics because I think my teacher was not that great and I want to make sure I get a good grasp on it. I mostly need advice on if I should validate the other classes. I think I know calc, but if I am going to be there for four years anyway, do I really care if I take calc 1 first semester? Is the plebe poli sci course interesting or should I try to validate? What about validating the other courses I am taking?

I know there are many questions to be answered in this post and it is kind of all over the place. Thank you to anyone who attempts to break it down and gives me some sort of help.

Let this grow organically during plebe summer. With your advisor. Who has years of experience with this. It’s more than your score on a test. It’s the overall fit within all the demands upon you at USNA.

DONT worry about this. Make decisions, later, with your academic advisor. It is a two way conversation. And they are good at this.

 

[Capt MJ]

I lean toward valdation, in general, because that frees you up to consider double majors, exchange semesters at other SAs or internationally, interesting electives, the programs noted above, or just gives you a lighter class load over your 4 years - which would be helpful with ECAs b

Don’t even think about ECAs plural until you get the hand of the place.

 

[8th Wing Refugee]

My experience is very dated and I'm a non-grad, so take this with a huge boulder of salt...

I was an Econ major and validated a bunch of classes as a result of my senior year of HS and my year at NAPS (a long story). 1st semester English, Calc 1&2, Intro to Computing, and the biggie for a bull major back then, four semesters of French.

I was able to take Intro to Econ second semester plebe year which gave me a head start on the major core youngster year.

If I had stayed, would have had all of that flexibility that @Capt MJ talks about in 1/C year. I think I would have had maybe only one core curriculum class each semester. Would have set me up well for some kind of masters program.

 

[hopefulhockeymom]

We attended an info session to speak the other day to help out with break out Q&A sessions as a recent applicant family, and during the briefing when validation was discussed, we wondered if one validates out of a required class (specifically calc 1&2), does one still need to take four math classes, or could those two validated spots be used for a totally different type of class (ie, history or foreign language)? Something that admissions rep said made it kind of sound like if you validated out of two math classes you just got to take more higher level math bc one still needed to take at least four math classes while at USNA.

 

[Usnavy2019]

I am an entering plebe and I am wondering if I should validate courses. Here are my thoughts so far: I want to attend graduate school at a civilian university after the academy (before service). I have heard that if you are near the top of your class first year academically then you are eligible for a seminar class called IGEP that is focused on helping you get into a top civilian grad school (Harvard, Stanford, UMich). I have also heard about VGEP (when you take classes at Georgetown during your eighth semester at the academy), but IGEP sounds better to me.

Here are my scores and what I will probably get on future tests:

AP Stats: 5
AP Psych: 5
AP Macro: 5
AP Gov: I am predicting a 4 but it could be a 3. Not sure yet.
AP Calc AB: 5
AP Physics 1: 4, maybe 5

A grad I know said not to validate really anything. I will be plenty busy my first year and if I am already familiar with the first year academics, I will be able to spend more time trying to join clubs and ensuring I get great grades in order to go for the IGEP program. I already know I will not validate physics because I think my teacher was not that great and I want to make sure I get a good grasp on it. I mostly need advice on if I should validate the other classes. I think I know calc, but if I am going to be there for four years anyway, do I really care if I take calc 1 first semester? Is the plebe poli sci course interesting or should I try to validate? What about validating the other courses I am taking?

I know there are many questions to be answered in this post and it is kind of all over the place. Thank you to anyone who attempts to break it down and gives me some sort of help.

I'd validate anything you can that you could do without a refresh in. I took college algebra and chemistry and validated neither. I could have easily validated US Government (and should have), but I had the erroneous assumption of "I'll just retake it for an easy A." While that worked out, I was writing more papers about the same things I already wrote papers about for AP Gov.

Validating gets you ahead in your major's matrix (the list of required courses to graduate). It opens up opportunities like Service Academy Exchange, Semesters Aboard, etc. that might preclude you from taking a full academic load.

I'll correct you on IGEP. IGEP is a process for your 1/C (senior year). The class years are reverse ordered. Your Plebe Year is your 4/C year. Anyway, IGEP is mainly executed via winning scholarships or being selected for funded programs (like being a research assistant or a fellow of some sort). They also are typically in areas of study of particular interest to the Navy such as STEM, finance, and political science/foreign policy. It's not apply on your own to Harvard for an MA in Underwater Basketweaving. You apply to programs via USNA. Also, there is no application help for IGEP programs. MIDN apply and they are selected. Top performing MIDN might have a professor recommend them to pursue IGEP, but there is no automatic "You're crushing it, let's get you into Stanford" for MIDN. This is pretty true with anything in the Navy. The Navy offers some very cool opportunities, but most are something that you have to pursue yourself. You'll get told what you need to put in the application, but it is up to you to actually put it together and submit it. The USNA website says they can select up to 20 USN and 5 USMC officers across all programs. MIDN who are top performers are competitive for these prestigious scholarships because they are breaking out in an already high-caliber pool. MIDN get selected based on their merit. USNA graduates combat-qualified officers. Its mission is not to get MIDN into good grad schools.

In closing, I'd validate classes because you already feel confident in that class. Don't do it simply to have a shot at IGEP/VEGP. By all means, have a goal and that isn't a bad one to have. Just know you are at the beginning of a LONG four year journey. You might get exposed to different opportunities that you like more than grad school. USNA has too many opportunities to be able to take advantage of all of them. You might be burnt out from school. You may be super anxious to hit the Fleet. You may not want to get behind on your career and have your friends pass you by professionally. Outlooks change. I came into USNA wanting to fly, do my time, and head to the airlines. I'm now looking at going as far as I can in the Navy. It is bound to change if I develop other attachments like a wife and kids.

 

[OiledPancakes]

I

I'd validate anything you can that you could do without a refresh in. I took college algebra and chemistry and validated neither. I could have easily validated US Government (and should have), but I had the erroneous assumption of "I'll just retake it for an easy A." While that worked out, I was writing more papers about the same things I already wrote papers about for AP Gov.

Validating gets you ahead in your major's matrix (the list of required courses to graduate). It opens up opportunities like Service Academy Exchange, Semesters Aboard, etc. that might preclude you from taking a full academic load.

I'll correct you on IGEP. IGEP is a process for your 1/C (senior year). The class years are reverse ordered. Your Plebe Year is your 4/C year. Anyway, IGEP is mainly executed via winning scholarships or being selected for funded programs (like being a research assistant or a fellow of some sort). They also are typically in areas of study of particular interest to the Navy such as STEM, finance, and political science/foreign policy. It's not apply on your own to Harvard for an MA in Underwater Basketweaving. You apply to programs via USNA. Also, there is no application help for IGEP programs. MIDN apply and they are selected. Top performing MIDN might have a professor recommend them to pursue IGEP, but there is no automatic "You're crushing it, let's get you into Stanford" for MIDN. This is pretty true with anything in the Navy. The Navy offers some very cool opportunities, but most are something that you have to pursue yourself. You'll get told what you need to put in the application, but it is up to you to actually put it together and submit it. The USNA website says they can select up to 20 USN and 5 USMC officers across all programs. MIDN who are top performers are competitive for these prestigious scholarships because they are breaking out in an already high-caliber pool. MIDN get selected based on their merit. USNA graduates combat-qualified officers. Its mission is not to get MIDN into good grad schools.

In closing, I'd validate classes because you already feel confident in that class. Don't do it simply to have a shot at IGEP/VEGP. By all means, have a goal and that isn't a bad one to have. Just know you are at the beginning of a LONG four year journey. You might get exposed to different opportunities that you like more than grad school. USNA has too many opportunities to be able to take advantage of all of them. You might be burnt out from school. You may be super anxious to hit the Fleet. You may not want to get behind on your career and have your friends pass you by professionally. Outlooks change. I came into USNA wanting to fly, do my time, and head to the airlines. I'm now looking at going as far as I can in the Navy. It is bound to change if I develop other attachments like a wife and kids.

Thank you! That helped a lot! I will definitely take this into consideration. Thanks for the clarification on the IGEP program I wasn’t exactly sure how it worked.

 

[Skipper07]

Validate everything you can. It will open doors for a minor, double major, study abroad, or language minor.

 

[brewmeist]

My '23 son validated everything he could and is glad he did.

Do not get too far ahead of yourself and immediately get committed to IGEP and VGEP programs. They are incredible programs, but they are not the best option for every single Mid. In the end, they may be the best option for you, but you are way too early in the game to determine that.

My own son is a good example of this. He graduated in the top 100 in his class, but opted against going for an immediate master's degree. He looked at all the pros and cons and made a decision to hold off. Keep in mind that this is specific to him and his career goals. Every situation is unique to the individual.

 

[LT360]

Validate everything you can. It will open doors for a minor, double major, study abroad, or language minor.

Good advice so far @Skipper07 summarizes it. DS '25 validated all that he could and has resulted in lots of flexibility and ability to manage class load slightly better than average. Also allowing him to consider getting a "minor" in a language.

Note that you can always choose to not validate and take the classes. Bottom line, keep every option open as long as possible. Take the tests during PS, submit your AP scores and discuss with your Advisor your best path forward.

Word of warning. DS validated Calc1 so was a semester "ahead" of normal track. He wanted to knock out his three remaining math courses in his first three quarters at the USNA. As a History major he was not required to take "Diffy Q" and instead could take a Stats class which he planned to take first semester 3/C year. However he could not get into the Stats class as 1/C and 2/C got priority for obvious reasons. His advisor suggested he go ahead and take "Diffy Q". Upon advice from me (who almost left engineering school due to DiffEQ), I told him to re-arrange his schedule and take the Stats when he could, which he did his 2/C year. Bottom line, do not take DiffEQ unless you absolutely have to take the class.

 

[IronmanDaremo]

My kid had AP Calc in high school, and then pre-calc and Calc I during his regular college year before getting his appointment. He did not/chose not to validate Calc. But, he was well prepared for the I and II classes as a Plebe.

Could always just take Fun. Math as your other math elective. Kid said it was a blast and super easy.

(Highly sarcastic ....... he said it was a beast, and will probably result in his lowest grade at the school so far).

Kid is probably going to do well in Diff. Eq. based on his tests so far. Then again, he is a math major.

 

[justdoit19]

My '23 son validated everything he could and is glad he did.

Do not get too far ahead of yourself and immediately get committed to IGEP and VGEP programs. They are incredible programs, but they are not the best option for every single Mid. In the end, they may be the best option for you, but you are way too early in the game to determine that.

My own son is a good example of this. He graduated in the top 100 in his class, but opted against going for an immediate master's degree. He looked at all the pros and cons and made a decision to hold off. Keep in mind that this is specific to him and his career goals. Every situation is unique to the individual.

But, it’s nice to have options available. Set yourself up for as many open doors as possible.

 

[Skipper07]

My own son is a good example of this. He graduated in the top 100 in his class, but opted against going for an immediate master's degree. He looked at all the pros and cons and made a decision to hold off. Keep in mind that this is specific to him and his career goals. Every situation is unique to the individual.

Ditto, I chose to do other fun things. I had no interest in doing grad school immediately.

 

[DutchAmerican]

My mid decided to validate everything he could as he wanted to have flexibility. He is planning to do VGEP at UMD, assuming he can get into the 1 year aero engineering masters program. He is hoping for aviation commission , so he will likely have a TAD anyway. He feels the extra 6 month won’t hurt him as much in his progression. Counting on an easy A by not validating may not happen.

 

[Capt MJ]

My mid decided to validate everything he could as he wanted to have flexibility. He is planning to do VGEP at UMD, assuming he can get into the 1 year aero engineering masters program. He is hoping for aviation commission , so he will likely have a TAD anyway. He feels the extra 6 month won’t hurt him as much in his progression. Counting on an easy A by not validating may not happen.

I like the VGEP option. Start the classes at UMD, Georgetown, GWU, Johns Hopkins, etc. spring of 1/c year, commute to class from Bancroft, “miss out” on parades, etc. Enjoy Comm Week, graduate with class, get a place convenient to grad school, press hard to finish Master’s in December, graduate same year as your USMA B.S., then fall in with the last cohorts from your USNA class heading to Fleet or Corps officer community paths, not really behind at all.

 

[OiledPancakes]

I like the VGEP option. Start the classes at UMD, Georgetown, GWU, Johns Hopkins, etc. spring of 1/c year, commute to class from Bancroft, “miss out” on parades, etc. Enjoy Comm Week, graduate with class, get a place convenient to grad school, press hard to finish Master’s in December, graduate same year as your USMA B.S., then fall in with the last cohorts from your USNA class heading to Fleet or Corps officer community paths, not really behind at all.

But there’s also the flip side that IGEP provides. Going to a civilian grad school and getting to experience a full 1.5 year program with “normal” people can be really awesome. It is a good break before going to the fleet.

 

[JudgeGuy]

We attended an info session to speak the other day to help out with break out Q&A sessions as a recent applicant family, and during the briefing when validation was discussed, we wondered if one validates out of a required class (specifically calc 1&2), does one still need to take four math classes, or could those two validated spots be used for a totally different type of class (ie, history or foreign language)? Something that admissions rep said made it kind of sound like if you validated out of two math classes you just got to take more higher level math bc one still needed to take at least four math classes while at USNA.

I believe it depends on the major. Unless I'm mistaken DS took just 3 CalcII & III plebe yr and in the Fall this year Data Science For Decision-Making.

During Plebe summer my DS was able to validate several classes. He was very concerned at the number and discussed with his advisor who assured him that USNA wouldn't validate him out of classes if they were concerned that Mids could not do it. I believe he tested out of 3+ (Clac 1, Chem1, English, German). He regretted it at times as it was a struggle jumping classes. But he pulled it off and it allowed him the opportunity to have 2 language Minors Chinese & German with his FAS (East Asia/Eurasia) major with the freed up slots. When he started German last Fall he was in an advanced class due to 6 years of German (4 AP in HS) and the 1st few weeks were tough as it had been 14+ months since he used and was quite rusty.

 

[OldRetSWO]

Going to a civilian grad school and getting to experience a full 1.5 year program with “normal” people can be really awesome.

Did you really enjoy it THAT much?

Yes, I know that you are pre-plebe summer. . . My comment was spurred by how you sound like you've already done it.

It is a good break before going to the fleet.

I won't try to speak for you but I will tell you that my classmates and I were EXTREMELY EAGER to get to the fleet. After 13 yrs of public school and 4 years of USNA, my friends and I were very very ready to actually get out there and lead. I certainly didn't need yet another break (school) before starting my real life.