USNA or Vanderbilt University?

A

ads9

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Joined
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USNA decision pending.

Accepted to Vanderbilt, awarded 300k AROTC scholarship.

Three years ago my son made USNA his top college goal. We toured USNA, he went back to summer seminar, he was invited to CVW.

He was sure a military type college environment was the perfect fit for him.

To our surprise he came home from CVW less inspired to attend USNA. He said the midshipmen he interacted with seem unhappy and spoke negatively about being a midshipmen. Several of them told him if they had to do it again they would have gone ROTC scholarship instead of USNA so they could have more life balance.

Wow...what a shock. I've heard plebe year is hard but I didn't expect the feedback.

My son is very self disciplined and a natural leader. While I believe in the service academys for being superior maybe the military style college environment isn't necessary for some? I suppose no matter what college they go to they all end up as military officers. Right?

Are we sane!? Considering Vanderbilt over USNA!?

When the decision comes should my husband and I be encouraging him towards USNA instead of Vanderbilt?

What reasons/differences can we consider when weighing that decision?

Any advice appreciated!
Our son is a first generation college student. Homeschooled since preschool (Veritas Scholars Academy), 4.0 GPA, excellent student resume, nominations to USNA from JROTC, congressman and senator.
 
I would caution any candidates from taking plebe’s comments as gospel.

They all have ups and downs. The candidate could catch them in a bad spot. They said the same thing to my son and he laughed it off … he graduated and loved it.

Other candidates might have a completely different response because of the plebes they got.
 
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ads9 said:
USNA decision pending.

Accepted to Vanderbilt, awarded 300k AROTC scholarship.

Three years ago my son made USNA his top college goal. We toured USNA, he went back to summer seminar, he was invited to CVW.

He was sure a military type college environment was the perfect fit for him.

To our surprise he came home from CVW less inspired to attend USNA. He said the midshipmen he interacted with seem unhappy and spoke negatively about being a midshipmen. Several of them told him if they had to do it again they would have gone ROTC scholarship instead of USNA so they could have more life balance.

Wow...what a shock. I've heard plebe year is hard but I didn't expect the feedback.

My son is very self disciplined and a natural leader. While I believe in the service academys for being superior maybe the military style college environment isn't necessary for some? I suppose no matter what college they go to they all end up as military officers. Right?

Are we sane!? Considering Vanderbilt over USNA!?

When the decision comes should my husband and I be encouraging him towards USNA instead of Vanderbilt?

What reasons/differences can we consider when weighing that decision?

Any advice appreciated!
Our son is a first generation college student. Homeschooled since preschool (Veritas Scholars Academy), 4.0 GPA, excellent student resume, nominations to USNA from JROTC, congressman and senator.
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You wrote your son has an Army scholarship, but holding out for USNA. Does he want Army or Navy? Did he apply USMA and NROTC?
 
Original goal: USNA Marine Route. So far medical waiver was granted by AROTC. So that's the open door. Marine ROTC and USNA medical waiver pending. USNA medical waiver denied. He is willing to serve Marine or Army.
 
ads9 said:
Original goal: USNA Marine Route. So far medical waiver was granted by AROTC. So that's the open door. Marine ROTC and USNA medical waiver pending. USNA medical waiver denied. He is willing to serve Marine or Army.
Click to expand...
Oops I meant USMA medical waiver denied.
 
@ads9

It is customary and traditional for USNA midshipmen to complain and be negative. But are they walking away? Nope, most do not.

The saying is “Bad place to be, great place to be from.” They are embracing the suck, because it is a 4-year pressure cooker of 24/7 effort, stress, frustration.

Plebe Summer is not like Plebe Year. Plebe Year is not like the other 3 years. USNA is not like the Fleet or Corps.

Out of this adversity comes a unique bond that is incomprehensible. I see it in the deep ties DH has with classmates, company mates and teammates decades later. The ability to know you can be pushed hard, tested again and again, and persevere, is priceless, and forms a core of self-confidence that is lifelong - and can support them through potential life-and-death stress later on. Former Vietnam POWs who are USNA alumni will typically note their Plebe Summer and midshipmen experiences as critical to their mental survival in Hanoi.

The “suck factor” gets less with time. The mids learn how to manage it. As juniors and seniors, they have civilian clothes, cars, have figured the place out, get to do some amazing things and are having fun. And, you can’t put 4000+ smart, creative people in one place and not have some fun stuff happen. I’ll leave it to the USNA grads here to dive deeper.

The SA path is not for everyone. The ones who go there self-select and endure. Excellent, good, mediocre and poor officers come out of all commissioning sources, which are proven and valued paths.

I just saw no USNA medical waiver granted for your son? (edit, I just saw that corrected to USMA) If no medical waiver, then he will not be fully qualified for USNA. NROTC waiver authority is different. If he wants to be a Marine, NROTC MO is a superb path. Fingers crossed for him.

And welcome, new member of a few hours.
 
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Sounds like your son is still juggling some unknowns. Hopefully he'll hear something from USNA within the next week. If the initial goal was being a Marine officer, the NROTC-MO is the guaranteed path there, IF he receives that waiver. If the goal was being at a service academy, he'll know if that is an option soon enough and hopefully by May 1, which is when Vanderbilt would need to know (as far as I know they have not pushed their enrollment date). But know that Vanderbilt will NOT be an immersive Navy environment. It is an amazing school in a very fun town. My older son has loved it, but it was always his first choice school. He's somehow managed a very difficult major, played intramural sports, involved in a fraternity and held a job. The Navy unit is great, but it is not, by any means, a service academy environment. If your son has not visited, I would recommend he do that, if he ends up having to weigh an academy v. Vanderbilt. My son has loved having a college experience there while also loving all of his summer trainings with the Navy. I'll add that my younger son had the same experience as yours last spring at his CVW. My older son told him not to take any of that to heart as he understands there is an ebb and flow to day to day life of students at any school. If you want to PM me I'd be happy to answer any questions you have about Vanderbilt.
 
.
Your DS will know where his future should be if you set him up in the Annapolis area during May 17th - 25th, 2024, the United States Naval Academy Commissioning Week.

— GO NAVY* Beat Army —

IMG_2984.jpeg
.
 
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Dr. Strange Love said:
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Your DS will know where his future should be if you set him up in the Annapolis area during May 17th - 25th, 2024, the United States Naval Academy Commissioning Week.

— GO NAVY* Beat Army —
.
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I am also super excited about my son's commissioning, not in Annapolis. There will be lots of new Naval officers from all over the country in a few weeks.
 
And the Army Battalion is also very good there. . .I feel obligated to say that given I'm now in a house divided. They take their Army/Navy game and ROTC Olympics very seriously.
 
Capt MJ said:
@ads9

It is customary and traditional for USNA midshipmen to complain and be negative. But are they walking away? Nope, most do not.

The saying is “Bad place to be, great place to be from.” They are embracing the suck, because it is a 4-year pressure cooker of 24/7 effort, stress, frustration.

Plebe Summer is not like Plebe Year. Plebe Year is not like the other 3 years. USNA is not like the Fleet or Corps.

Out of this adversity comes a unique bond that is incomprehensible. I see it in the deep ties DH has with classmates, company mates and teammates decades later. The ability to know you can be pushed hard, tested again and again, and persevere, is priceless, and forms a core of self-confidence that is lifelong - and can support them through potential life-and-death stress later on. Former Vietnam POWs who are USNA alumni will typically note their Plebe Summer and midshipmen experiences as critical to their mental survival in Hanoi.

The “suck factor” gets less with time. The mids learn how to manage it. As juniors and seniors, they have civilian clothes, cars, have figured the place out, get to do some amazing things and are having fun. And, you can’t put 4000+ smart, creative people in one place and not have some fun stuff happen. I’ll leave it to the USNA grads here to dive deeper.

The SA path is not for everyone. The ones who go there self-select and endure. Excellent, good, mediocre and poor officers come out of all commissioning sources, which are proven and valued paths.

I just saw no USNA medical waiver granted for your son? (edit, I just saw that corrected to USMA) If no medical waiver, then he will not be fully qualified for USNA. NROTC waiver authority is different. If he wants to be a Marine, NROTC MO is a superb path. Fingers crossed for him.

And welcome, new member of a few hours.
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Thank you for the advice and explanations. That helps us understand the process clearer and what they are preparing the midshipmen for when they go off to serve.

The USNA medical waiver and admissions decision come in together at the same time usually?

Waiver Granted:
Army ROTC

Waiver Pending:
Marine ROTC
USNA

Waiver Denied:
USMA
 
Holden100 said:
Sounds like your son is still juggling some unknowns. Hopefully he'll hear something from USNA within the next week. If the initial goal was being a Marine officer, the NROTC-MO is the guaranteed path there, IF he receives that waiver. If the goal was being at a service academy, he'll know if that is an option soon enough and hopefully by May 1, which is when Vanderbilt would need to know (as far as I know they have not pushed their enrollment date). But know that Vanderbilt will NOT be an immersive Navy environment. It is an amazing school in a very fun town. My older son has loved it, but it was always his first choice school. He's somehow managed a very difficult major, played intramural sports, involved in a fraternity and held a job. The Navy unit is great, but it is not, by any means, a service academy environment. If your son has not visited, I would recommend he do that, if he ends up having to weigh an academy v. Vanderbilt. My son has loved having a college experience there while also loving all of his summer trainings with the Navy. I'll add that my younger son had the same experience as yours last spring at his CVW. My older son told him not to take any of that to heart as he understands there is an ebb and flow to day to day life of students at any school. If you want to PM me I'd be happy to answer any questions you have about Vanderbilt.
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Glad to have your reply. Very helpful. My son has visited the campus and also had a detailed tour of Vanderbilt ROTC. He enjoyed it.

Seems to come down to more of a traditional college experience or service academy experience.

I'm especially glad I posted, now I know my son's experience at CVW was not unusual.

Thanks! I'll message with my questions about Vanderbilt. I appreciate that.
 
My advice would be to not encourage him in either direction, but rather use your parental wisdom to help him understand the pros and cons of each choice. Life at USNA is indeed harsh at times, and someone who attends really ought to do so solely out of internal motivation. The ones who went to an Academy to please their parents tend to be the most miserable.

One either is drawn to the structure, camaraderie, tradition and academics of a service academy—Or they desire the relative freedom, social scene, and flexibility of a civilian school.

Both paths lead to a commission so it’s really about which experience he prefers. Two fantastic options here. A great dilemma to have. Kudos on a job well done.
 
ads9 said:
Thank you for the advice and explanations. That helps us understand the process clearer and what they are preparing the midshipmen for when they go off to serve.

The USNA medical waiver and admissions decision come in together at the same time usually?

Waiver Granted:
Army ROTC

Waiver Pending:
Marine ROTC
USNA

Waiver Denied:
USMA
Click to expand...
At the other end of the gripe-and-grumble continuum, an epic moment:
 
When the decision comes should my husband and I be encouraging him towards USNA instead of Vanderbilt?
Click to expand...

I don't think you should encourage him either way... just help him make sure he gets the most information he can to make a decision. Tell him you will support him either way. There are multiple paths towards being an officer because different people need different things.

It's not going to be all peaches and cream being an engineering major at Vanderbilt either...I bet if he visited some of them they would not be all happy either.
 
bopper said:
I don't think you should encourage him either way... just help him make sure he gets the most information he can to make a decision. Tell him you will support him either way. There are multiple paths towards being an officer because different people need different things.

It's not going to be all peaches and cream being an engineering major at Vanderbilt either...I bet if he visited some of them they would not be all happy either.
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Definitely NOT a cakewalk. But unless something's changed recently I don't think the Marine option mids have to take the required 2 semesters of physics and calc and can major in whatever they want. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, would hate to mislead anyone.
 
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Kierkegaard said:
My advice would be to not encourage him in either direction, but rather use your parental wisdom to help him understand the pros and cons of each choice. Life at USNA is indeed harsh at times, and someone who attends really ought to do so solely out of internal motivation. The ones who went to an Academy to please their parents tend to be the most miserable.

One either is drawn to the structure, camaraderie, tradition and academics of a service academy—Or they desire the relative freedom, social scene, and flexibility of a civilian school.

Both paths lead to a commission so it’s really about which experience he prefers. Two fantastic options here. A great dilemma to have. Kudos on a job well done.
Click to expand...
Thank you. Great guidance for us as parents. We will certainly take your advice to heart.
 
Capt MJ said:
@ads9

It is customary and traditional for USNA midshipmen to complain and be negative. But are they walking away? Nope, most do not.

The saying is “Bad place to be, great place to be from.” They are embracing the suck, because it is a 4-year pressure cooker of 24/7 effort, stress, frustration.

Plebe Summer is not like Plebe Year. Plebe Year is not like the other 3 years. USNA is not like the Fleet or Corps.

Out of this adversity comes a unique bond that is incomprehensible. I see it in the deep ties DH has with classmates, company mates and teammates decades later. The ability to know you can be pushed hard, tested again and again, and persevere, is priceless, and forms a core of self-confidence that is lifelong - and can support them through potential life-and-death stress later on. Former Vietnam POWs who are USNA alumni will typically note their Plebe Summer and midshipmen experiences as critical to their mental survival in Hanoi.

The “suck factor” gets less with time. The mids learn how to manage it. As juniors and seniors, they have civilian clothes, cars, have figured the place out, get to do some amazing things and are having fun. And, you can’t put 4000+ smart, creative people in one place and not have some fun stuff happen. I’ll leave it to the USNA grads here to dive deeper.

The SA path is not for everyone. The ones who go there self-select and endure. Excellent, good, mediocre and poor officers come out of all commissioning sources, which are proven and valued paths.

I just saw no USNA medical waiver granted for your son? (edit, I just saw that corrected to USMA) If no medical waiver, then he will not be fully qualified for USNA. NROTC waiver authority is different. If he wants to be a Marine, NROTC MO is a superb path. Fingers crossed for him.

And welcome, new member of a few hours.
Click to expand...
Beautifully said!
 
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